Eveline Widmer-Schlumpf, finance minister, will be president for 2012
Alain Berset, Socialist, replaces Calmy-Rey
Micheline Calmy-Rey, Swiss president, says her farewells to parliament 14 December
BERN, SWITZERLAND – Alain Berset, the Swiss senate’s youngest member at age 31, was elected easily with 126 votes in a second round of voting, to Switzerland’s government.
The election of the Socialist from Fribourg completes the election of the 7-member government. He replaces Micheline Calmy-Rey, also a Socialist.
The two UDC candidates who were presented for several of the seven slots, failed to come close to majorities.
The party’s weak showing, on the heels of its parliamentary losses in October, reinforces the sense there is a parliamentary shift towards the centre.
The government now comprises one right-wing party member, three from the centre-right, one centre and two left.
New government member Alain Berset, Socialist, replaces Micheline Calmy-Rey, who is retiring (©2011 Reuters/Keystone/pool)
Berset is the only new member, with the others re-elected.
Parliament elects a chancellor, president and vice-president following the election of the government; chancellor Corina Casanova remains in her post with 186 votes out of 206.
Eveline Widmer-Schlumpf, finance minister, was elected president for 2012, with 174 votes out of 211 for the one-year post that rotates among Federal Council members.
Those watching US-Swiss talks over US investigations into Swiss banks will be relieved, for the lack of a change at the top in Switzerland will smooth the way for the discussions to be concluded. Widmer-Schlumpf has said recently, in her role as finance minister, that she is keen to see a solution found quickly.
The Swiss government’s seven members and their parties, in order of Wednesday’s voting:
Doris Leuthard, PDC (Christian Democrat), centre
Eveline Widmer-Schlumpf , PBD, centre right
Ueli Maurer, UDC (People’s Party), right
Didier Burkhalter, PBD, centre right
Simonetta Somaruga, PS (Socialist), left
Johann Schneider-Ammann, PLR, centre right
Alain Berset, PS (Socialist) , left
Swiss parliament voting for new federal council 14 December 2011 (©2011 Reuters/Keystone/pool)
The next complete re-election is in December 2015.
Useful links:
Wikipedia on Swiss political parties and their positions
Analysis of the Federal Council election in English, swissinfo
Details of the votes, Swiss Parliament (Fr)
Background on Swiss political system from ch.ch
BERN, SWITZERLAND – The Swiss government said Wednesday night 2 November that it condemns Israel for two new measures, voted by the Israeli cabinet Tuesday, shortly after Unesco admitted Palestine as a member.
Bern stopped short of calling the measures retaliatory, but it notes that the decision by Tel Aviv to “speed up construction of several thousand additional housing units in the settlements in and around East Jerusalem” is illegal and constitutes a violation of international law”.
The Swiss Federal Council also says that it is “preoccupied by the Israeli government’s announcement concerning a possible freeze on transferring funds to the Palestinian Authority. Such a decision would be contrary to Israel’s international obligations. Switzerland calls upon the Israeli authorities to continue to turn over the tax revenues collected in the name of the Palestinian Authority. These funds make up a significant part of the Palestinian Authority’s budget.”
Switzerland abstained from the Unesco vote on Palestine, but swissinfo cited a statement Monday night by Rodolphe Imhoof, Swiss permanent delegate to Unesco in Paris: “If Switzerland abstained in the voting, it’s because it believes that this debate should not be held in the context of an organisation whose role is a technical one, such as Unesco,.” Imhoof added that the matter was one for the political organs of the UN to decide.
The Israeli government has denied charges that the two cabinet decisions are retaliatory, but AFP quotes an unnamed Israeli official as saying the measures were a “punishment” for the vote.
public transport, Geneva
BERN, SWITZERLAND – Swiss public transport systems do more than simply carry more people for less fuel: they also get relatively high ecology marks for their overall impact on the environment.
A study ordered by the federal government, published in German 9 September, shows that while public transport is far ahead of road traffic at the moment in terms of pollution impact, much more needs to be done to ensure it stays well ahead because of the rapid rate of growth predicted for public transport, while cars are seeing improvements.
Public transport systems do well in terms of energy consumption, CO2 and atmospheric pollution but their good marks are lowered slightly by the increase in their traffic volume, higher speeds and their use of tunnels. The noise from trains, despite significant progress in recent years to reduce this, remains a problem.
The study, which also projected the impact of public transport over the next 20 years, has resulted in a decision by the Federal Council to redouble efforts to reduce noise, carbon emissions and to put a greater emphasis on susbtainable development where public transport is concerned.
Swiss cabinet called in Hildebrand, central bank president, for special briefing
BERN, SWITZERLAND – The Swiss Federal Council says it is closely watching the record high Swiss franc situation, studying options and is ready to act if necessary, but it cautions against knee-jerk reactions that provide only short-term solutions. It issued a cautious statement Tuesday morning 9 August about the extraordinary meeting held by the governing group of seven Monday to review options in the face of market turmoil and investors pushing up the Swiss franc as a safe haven.
The group threw its support behind SNB (Swiss National Bank) President Philipp Hildebrand’s intervention in money markets last week and his promise to do more if the franc remains too high.
“It believes, as does the SNB, that the Swiss franc is clearly overvalued and that an energetic intervention is needed on the monetary policy front”, the Council said in the statement.
“We believe today that economic activity will slow down substantially in the quarters to come. The Federal Council is closely watching developments. It estimates that Switzerland’s position remains stronger than that of most of its neighbours but it is nevertheless aware of the need to watch the situation closely.”
China, Russia and India free trade deals are a focus
The Council noted a number of steps that have been taken since the start of 2011 to cushion the economy and business, noting in particular that it is keen to complete negotiations for free trade agreements with China, India and Russia before the end of 2012.
BERN, SWITZERLAND – The Swiss Migration Office has published a new brochure for immigrants, in nine languages including English, with basic information about life in Switzerland, tips for settling in and links to official sites to take things to the next step.
The brochure appears to be aimed mainly at people who move to Switzerland with the idea that they will stay for several years but even for the large group of English-speakers who often see their move to Switzerland as temporary, the brochure offers sensible suggestions and guidance on basics such as the health insurance system.
It points out at the start that 70 percent of Swiss people speak German and only 20 percent French so it comes as no surprise that it sounds like it was written mainly for foreigners in German-speaking areas, but there are some odd lines, perhaps the result of translation plus trying to pack too much for too many people into one brochure:
“Every individual has a right to physical and mental integrity – In Switzerland, every form of violence is forbidden and liable to prosecution.
This includes domestic violence, female genital mutilation or forced marriage. If you find yourself in an emergency situation, seek helpfrom the responsible agency.”
Despite some shortcomings, newcomers to Switzerland will find helpful information.
BERN, SWITZERLAND – Switzerland 6 June saw CHF1.5 million returned to it, money that had been put into an account blocked in and overseen by Germany, as the result of an agreement between the Swiss government and the Qaddafi regime in Libya. Switzerland has been holding discussions with Germany for some weeks about returning the money: Bern has spent more than CHF3 million in aid to Libyan citizens since the outbreak of the conflict in their country in February 2011, the Swiss Federal Council said Wednesday morning 8 June.
The CHF1.5m was paid by Switzerland after an investigation in Geneva into a leaked photo failed to turn up the culprit who gave the document to the Tribune de Geneve in the summer of 2008. The newspaper published the photo of Hannibal Qaddafi after he was arrested at Geneva’s five-star President Wilson hotel, for attacking one of his employees.
Libya then filed a formal complaint.
“Switzerland agreed to pay compensation to cover the cost of the proceedings and legal fees, in the event that the competent Geneva authorities were unable to find and punish the guilty party or parties,” Bern notes. “This agreement was the condition for the release in June 2010 of Swiss citizen Max Goeldi, who was being detained in Libya.”
Update 12:50 Bern / Zurich, Switzerland (GenevaLunch) – The argument over who gets the Duvalier millions, some CHF5.8 million of them, will finally be heard in court, with the Swiss government 2 May initiating forfeiture proceedings at the Swiss Administrative High Court. The proceedings are the first under a Swiss law that went into effect in February 2011. The Haiti proceedings are also currently the only case requested by the federal government, spokesperson Roland Meier told GenevaLunch, but, he notes “the law was created to cover other cases” as needed.
The new law allows what are known as failed countries to ask for help without pressing criminal charges first, a lengthy, costly and often, as in the case of Haiti, near-impossible task.
If the government’s case for restitution is successful, “the Swiss Confederation will return the Duvalier assets to Haiti in accordance with the provisions of the new Federal Act on the Restitution of Unlawful Assets (RUAA).
The funds were frozen in 1986 shortly after Jean-Claude Duvalier fled Haiti, ending his family’s decades-long dictatorship. They have been continually frozen in Switzerland since then.
Amount that could go to Haiti probably more than CHF5.8 million
The forfeited assets should amount to somewhat more than CHF 5.8 million, according to the Federal Department of Finance (FDF), which announced the opening of proceedings.
The amount appears to have risen and fallen over the years, but Meier, spokesperson for the FDF, told GenevaLunch that it is not yet clear if this is because the funds were in dollars and the dollar has moved against the franc, or if the amount involved is only part of the original funds in question.
Duvalier said in February 2011 that the money belonged to his family’s foundation, and he mentioned a sum of CHF6.8 million. At that time the Swiss government spoke of $5.8m, not Swiss francs (background story, GenevaLunch). Asset Recovery, which has published an online history of the attempts to give the Duvalier funds to Haiti, mentions $4.8 million in 2009. Reuters notes today that the amount of which Duvalier has been accused of embezzling is between $300,000 and $800,000.
Duvalier returned to Haiti 21 January 2011 for the first time since he left in 1986, saying he wanted to help his people, following the massive earthquake there. He had been living in exile in France, initially with a luxurious lifestyle, but he lost much of his money in a costly divorce to his wife Michele.
25 years to close the Swiss law loophole
The RUAA was created to close a loophole in Swiss law that had made it impossible for Switzerland to return the money to Haiti, which never had a stable government long enough in the post-Duvalier days to be able to instigate a claim itself and supply the information required by Switzerland.
Swiss authorities, who made it clear over the years they did not believe the money should be allowed back in Duvalier family hands, kept the funds blocked, but early in 2010 there was a close call where it appeared that Switzerland would not be able to legally continuing blocking the funds.
The federal government 2 February, the day after the new law went into effect, asked the Federal Finanace Department to start proceedings.
Background story, Duvalier funds, GenevaLunch, February 2010
Geneva, Switzerland (GenevaLunch) - Geneva Airport has been given the right by the Swiss federal government to dip into the country’s strategic petrol supplies to cover emergency fuel needs until the end of 2010.
The airport’s supplies have fallen due to the French strikes of recent weeks. Zurich and Basel airports’ petrol supplies have not been affected.
In other airport news: Swiss this week announced it will offer two flights a day between Geneva and Madrid starting 17 December and Baboo, which is struggling to stay profitable without cutting services, 26 October announced a revised winter schedule, with flights to Athens and London cut starting in early November.
Swiss is doubling the number of planes based in Geneva from four to eight in 2010.
Bern, Switzerland (GenevaLunch) - Sarah Shourd, 32, one of three hikers who were arrested by Iran in July 2009 for spying after they crossed into Iran from Iraq at an unmarked border, has been seen leaving prison, and it’s been confirmed on a web site run by the hikers’ family, that she was headed for the Swiss embassy in Teheran. Shourd was earlier today reported by Iranian public media to have been released. The US State Department told CNN that it could not confirm the information. The Swiss government, which represents American interests in Iran, has maintained its information blackout on the case.
Shourd has a medical condition that was there before her arrest but she has developed a lump in her breast according to her lawyer, and a judge in Teheran told Iranian television that she is being released for medical reasons.
Switzerland reportedly deposited $500,000 in bail for Shourd, according to the Iranian judge handling the case.
Her fiance, Shane Bauer, 28, and Josh Fattal, 28, remain in prison. Iran officials say they have indicted the hikers since investigations were completed recently. US officials say they believe the trio is innocent.
Mark Toner, acting US deputy spokesperson for the State Department, said at a 9 September briefing, when asked about the hikers, “our reaction is that we don’t know, frankly, what Iran is contemplating at this point. We have reached out through the Swiss protecting powers to try to find out more about this. Obviously, if this is—if this turns out to be true, this is terrific news. The hikers’ release is long overdue. And I would just stress that we hope that it’s all three hikers.”
Links to other sites: CNN, hikers’ families site and freethehikers on Facebook
Federal Palace in Bern, image from Wikipedia
Bern, Switzerland (GenevaLunch) – The Swiss Federal Council, the country’s seven member executive, comes in for heavy criticism for its handling of the UBS affair with the United States late 2008 and early 2009. The report is published by the parliamentary joint Control Commissions (CC) 30 May.
The report documents a crisis of leadership at the very top and takes to task both then Finance Minister, Hans-Rudolf Merz for isolating himself and failing to involve his colleagues, and Foreign Minister Micheline Calmy-Rey and Justice Minister Eveline Widmer-Schlumpf, who were involved in aspects of the case.
The government responded yesterday by saying it was aware of the structural reforms necessary in the government, and that it had already named a new state secretary for international finance before the release of the report.
Bern, Switzerland (GenevaLunch) – The Swiss federal government Thursday 20 May approved a package of CHF10 million to increase security around international organizations such as the UN Palais building in Geneva. The host government is responsible, under international law, for securing the outside and approach areas for these buildings, including walls and fences. Bern provided no details about what organizations will have reinforced security.
Security measures have been increasingly stepped up since 2003, following attacks on buildings in Baghdad.
Bern, Switzerland (GenevaLunch) – A flurry of news came out of Bern Wednesday afternoon, as the Swiss government (Federal Council) held a desk-clearing session. Bank deposits and bank supervision changes were part of the package.
Deposits insured to CHF100,000
One decision is to extend by a year the temporary measures taken during the financial crisis, to protect bank deposits, in order to allow a new law to go into effect in 2012. Insured bank deposits will thus become law for the first time.
The temporary protection amount up to CHF100,000 will be maintained by the new law, which also obliges banks to maintain 125 percent of their claims covered and other assets inside Switzerland. The total amount guaranteed has been raised to CHF6 billion and pension-related deposits will be given top priority for reimbursement in case a bank fails.
Bank supervision in leadup to financial crisis criticized
Swiss media have been quick to jump on details of a report approved by the government Wednesday, “Clarification of the actions of the Financial Market Supervisory Authority in the financial market crisis”, in particular noting that parties on the left and right were both critical of the report for not going far enough or going too far.
Bern, Switzerland (GenevaLunch) - Swiss bank UBS will be billed an estimated CHF40 million by the Swiss government for the cost of providing help to US judicial authorities based on two requests, the Federal Council announced Wednesday afternoon 28 April. The government earlier this year said it would bill the bank CHF1 million but today it said that its expenses would amount to CHF40m and “the particular circumstances leading to both administrative assistance requests from the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) on account of the conduct of UBS in the United States justify billing the costs incurred to UBS.”
Swiss parliament in session Photo®Swiss parliament
The requests for help were made in July 2008 and August 2009 and are part of the search by US tax authorities for information on fraud-related bank accounts held at UBS. The August 2009 request led to the treaty signed between the two countries where Switzerland agrees to review 4,450 bank accounts by August 2010. The treaty will soon be debated by parliament, which must ratify it for it to be signed.
Swiss law does not have any provision for a bank or other financial institution to be billed for costs when requests for assistance are made, so the Federal Council has prepared a draft resolution for the parliament that covers only this case and only UBS.
Background, GenevaLunch
Valais, Switzerland, electric power station: can you improve on this?
Bern, Switzerland (GenevaLunch) – Put your best energy idea on the line and register it as an entry in the Watt d’Or contest, open to companies, organizations, groups, schools individuals: anyone.
The annual award will be given in January to the best energy projects in 2010. There is no prize money, but winners will be given a trophy and their projects publicized.
The federal government set up the initiative in 2006 in recognition of the important of creative ventures that take energy-saving measures beyond government-level discussions, into the practical realm: “Players who take practical measures are just as important as those involved in discussions. They research and develop energy technologies for the future, bring innovative products onto the market, are pioneers in the use of new technologies, create solutions that unite energy and environment awareness with comfort requirements, aesthetics and economic interests. Through their activities they form a bridge between theory and practice. Their successful implementation of such measures awakens an interest in innovative products and at the same demonstrates practical benefits for users, the economy and society.”
Dalai Lama on a visit to Switzerland in August 2009
Zurich, Switzerland (GenevaLunch) – The Dalai Lama has returned to Switzerland, which he visited in August 2009, to lead a three-day conference on altruism in Zurich. The visit is an unofficial one to the country which is home to the world’s third largest Tibetan population outside China.
The Swiss parliament recently noted that the Dalai Lama’s representatives had not requested interviews with federal government ministers or councilors, which have taken place several times in the past.
Background, 2009 visit to Switzerland, GenevaLunch
Links to other sites: Le Matin, Swiss Parliament question on Dalai Lama’s visit
Federal square, Bern, 19 Sept. Photo © Peter Eichenberger Berne
Bern, Switzerland (GenevaLunch) – Some 30,000 people marched in Bern Saturday 19 September to protest against as the economic crisis and what the organizers describe as misguided government rescue measures. It was the capital’s biggest demonstration since 2003.
The only exception: DFEA (Swiss foreign affairs) employees can still visit Facebook
Bern, Switzerland (GenevaLunch) – The second most visited web site in Swiss government offices, a January 2009 investigation showed, was the social network Facebook. Government employees were invited to show a bit of restraint in May and they did cut back somewhat, but Facebook remains the fourth most visited site at work – and the volume of downloads has increased in most departments.
Hans-Rudolf Merz, Swiss president and finance minister
Bern, Switzerland (GenevaLunch) – Swiss Finance Minister Hans-Rudolf Merz signed a new double-taxation treaty with his French counterpart, Christine Lagarde in Bern 27 August. The new treaty is the thirteenth Switzerland has signed since March, after Luxembourg and Denmark.
It brings Switzerland in line with the OECD standards for administrative assistance in cases of tax fraud, according to the Swiss government. Lagarde said in Bern that banking secrecy can no longer be used by one of the two states to refuse to provide information.
Bern and Zurich, Switzerland (GenevaLunch) – Shares in the bank UBS rose nearly 5 percent by closing Thursday 20 August in Zurich to CHF17.56 after the Swiss government sold its 9 percent stake, 332.2 million shares (convertible notes to be converted 25 August), at a price of CHF16.50. The sale had been announced late Wednesday. In addition, UBS has agreed to pay the government CHF1.8b in cash, which waives its right to future coupons on the convertible notes.
The government has thus withdrawn its stake in the bank completely, and the initial investment of CHF6 billion in January 2009 to bail out the bank has been completely recovered, with the government making a net profit of CHF1.2b.
The eight-month investment provided an annual rate of return of more than 30 percent.
Shares up; Swiss bankers hire US lobbyist
Zurich, Switzerland (GenevaLunch) - It may be no more than rumour based on several unnamed sources being cited, but the financial world is now expecting the Swiss and US governments to sign on Wednesday an agreement involving Swiss bank UBS. The bank’s shares have continued to climb most of this week, reaching the level they were at in December 2008 before the bank agreed to hand some names to the IRS tax authority, in early February. UBS shares closed in Zurich at CHF16.90 Tuesday 19 August.
Once the agreement is signed by both parties, details can be released. Widespread speculation by industry observers and media has UBS delivering some 5,000 clients’ details to the IRS, but the figure could take on a new aspect with the IRS specifying Tuesday 19 August that it is now investigating for criminal activity 150 of the 252 client names provided to it by the bank in February 2009.
UBS New York headquarters
Update 2 Florida, USA; Bern and Zurich, Switzerland (GenevaLunch) – The bell hasn’t yet quite tolled for anyone in the US court case where the IRS is asking for names of UBS bank clients. Judge Alan Gold in Miami late Friday 7 August, Swiss time, gave the two governments another week, until 12 August and at their request, to hammer out details of an out of court settlement.
Reactions were mixed, with the Financial Times reporting that “Friday’s setback caused confusion” for investors, arguing that the “failure” to reach an agreement will hurt UBS shares. Swiss media were more phlegmatic, viewing the delay as an acceptance that a resolution of several technical issues requires more time, which the judge has given.
Update 15:40 Bern, Switzerland (GenevaLunch) – Swiss authorities are investigating charges by a US man, who has pleaded guilty to tax evasion in the US, that a Swiss government official was bribed to provide his lawyer with information on the UBS court case. The information purportedly indicated, incorrectly, that his name was not among the 250 that UBS would eventually gave to IRS tax authorities in the US.
Reuters notes that bribery is extremely rare in Switzerland and the accusations have prompted concern in Bern, the capital, and among banking circles. Transparency International in its latest (2008) bribe payers’ index, puts Switzerland near the top of the list of relatively corruption-clean countries.
Earlier in the day 29 July Swiss media carried a report from wire service ATS that Alan Gold, the judge in the UBS bank case in the US, has scheduled a meeting by telephone Wednesday with the US Justice Department and Switzerland, to clarify progress being made towards an out of court settlement. The two parties to the case were encouraged by the judge 13 July to explore a settlement in the case where the IRS tax authority is demanding the names of 52,000 holders of UBS bank accounts.
In related news:
- a UBS client in the US, Jeffrey Chernick of New York, Tuesday 28 July pleaded guilty to fiscal fraud, saying that a Swiss lawyer had talked him out of turning himself in and paying back taxes in October 2008. The lawyer, according to Chernick’s court statement, assured him that a Swiss government official said his name was not on a list that would be given by the bank to the IRS. The attorney told Chernick the government official was paid CHF45,000 for the information. Chernick is the third person to plead guilty to tax evasion charges, from the group of 250 whose names were given to the IRS in February. Chicago Tribune and RSR, Fre
- former head of the UBS wealth management unit in the US, Joseph Grano, says that in early 2008, before the bank’s problems with the IRS were public, he wrote to the bank’s then-chairman and president, Marcel Ospel and Marcel Rohner, suggesting they spin off the unit, but they never replied. Bloomberg
Title: The Dalai Lama in Lausanne
Location: Lausanne, Vaud
Link out: Click here
Description: The Dalai Lama will visit Lausanne for a two-day lecture and he will speak mainly in Tibetan. The teachings will be translated into French and simultaneous translations will be available in English, German, Spanish and Italian.
In addition, two lectures will be given in the evening by Sogyal Rinpoche and Chokling Jigme Palden Rinpoche, representatives of the Buddhist tradition. (related news story in GenevaLunch)
Start Date: 04 Aug 2009
End Date: 05 Aug 2009
Washington, DC and Bern, Switzerland (GenevaLunch) - US federal district court judge Alan Gold, who is handling the case of the US Justice Department against Swiss bank UBS, has asked the American government to clarify its position, reports Swiss financial news agency AWP.
Bern, Switzerland (GenevaLunch) – The Swiss government will be pushing to strengthen Geneva’s role as the global centre for climate information when it participates in the Third World Climate Conference in Geneva 31 August to 4 September 2009. The conference will establish a system to improve the availability of climate information and predictions for government, the private sector, aid and other organizations.
Switzerland “considers climate information to be a key tool to strengthen society, particularly in developing countries, against the socio-economic consequences of climate change. Switzerland’s medium-term aim is to see the creation of the Global Framework for Climate Services and its embedding at the WMO (World Meteorological Organization). This would also serve to strengthen Geneva as a location for the coordination of future efforts in the dissemination of climate information,” Bern notes in a press release 25 June.
Florida, USA and Bern, Switzerland (GenevaLunch) - The Swiss government has asked a court in Miami, Florida to reject demands by US tax authorities that Swiss bank UBS turn over information on 52,000 clients of the bank who are US citizens. The Swiss government says its amicus curiae brief explains its legal position: that the John Doe “fishing expedition” request flies in the face of international law and would oblige the Swiss bank to break Swiss law.
The government notes that the filing does not involve it, however, as a party in the case, but rather allows it to state its position, following US procedural law.
Updated 20 March 07:15 Bern, Switzerland (GenevaLunch) - In a short, terse message, the Swiss federal government Thursday evening announced that the United States has dropped its request for administrative assistance in the case of UBS, Switzerland’s largest bank. The extraordinary message is linked to a request for help with 252 UBS clients’ accounts, made in July 2008, which has caused a political uproar in Switzerland and been linked to tense relations with the US in the past eight months. No reason was given for the US dropping its request, nor is there any mention of a related civil case where a US court has asked for information on an additional 52,000 accounts. The New York Times 18 March reported that the US was extending its inquiry into UBS in the civil case, citing unnamed sources it referred to as “persons briefed on the matter.” Swiss federal statement in its entirety:
St Gallen, Switzerland (TSR, Fre) – Hans-Rudolf Merz, Switzerland’s finance minister and federal councillor, is out of the artificially-induced coma he was placed in following cardiac surgery at the weekend. Doctors say he is in satisfactory condition, and was able to talk to them.
